The Truth About Money
First steps.
We’ve spent five weeks talking about how churches might step outside their building into more intentional relationship with their surrounding communities.
To get the conversation going each week, we’ve started with one of the 33 exercises from Portable Faith: Taking Church to the Community, which released at the beginning of the month. So far we’ve covered What If Your Church Burned Down?, Community Stations, Would You Let Your Families Intermix, Walk a Mile In Their Shoes and What We Say In Public.
Here’s some of the set up for this week’s excerpt from the book:
Ask participants to line up on an imaginary line. Read the following statements and instruct people to move to the far right of the line if they agree with the statement or to the far left of the line if they disagree with it. If they are uncertain or think the statement could be partially true and partially false, they may choose a place somewhere in the middle. After people take their positions, ask for volunteers who would like to explain why they chose the spot they did.
And here are a few of the statements group members might be asked to think about:
- Every person has the right to own as much as she or he wants.
- If we keep more than we need, it is like stealing from those in need.
- Society encourages us to own more or to upgrade what we own so that we never seem to achieve contentment.
- A very rich person might struggle more in coming to God than a poor one.
The point of the exercise is not necessarily to arrive at one black and white answer that the entire group agrees upon, of course, but to expose participants to different views about money and possessions.
After discussion, the group is asked some follow up questions related to passages in which Jesus speaks about money (for example, Matthew 19, Mark 12, Luke 16 and so on).
What do you think? Is it beneficial to prompt thoughtfulness about how we approach the topic of money and possessions? Could it be a potentially sensitive topic? Would you expect there to be strong disagreement around this subject? And how might your church use this idea (or a variation) of it? For example, could they put the statements on a screen during a worship service and ask people to privately evaluate where they would place themselves in agreement or disagreement?
Ray Hollenbach May 6, 2013 (10:20 am)
OK, this is silly, but it’s honestly my first reaction: by asking people to move “left” or “right” evokes a political reaction in me. Even though the questions do not have a political tilt, that’s the first thing that came to mind. I would be one of the grumpy guys who grudgingly went along with the exercise but whose face showed his true feelings.
That’s not to say I don’t think the questions are good or the topic is valid. Decisions about money and possessions are excellent indicators of our spirituality–but they *are* a flash point for many people.
Perhaps these questions would be great in a small group setting–and I might even suggest a “stealth setting,” where the small group leader is loaded with the questions, but drops them casually during a small group cook-out, while everyone’s eating (and their guard is down). People who answer the questions “wrong” go to the end of the burger line!
Sarah May 7, 2013 (9:35 am)
I thought about that, Ray. Maybe assigning a number scale would avoid the political affiliations better. Like the way you’re thinking under the radar though. :)
Teresa B Pasquale May 6, 2013 (10:29 am)
How timely is this dialogue with all our Diocesan Convocations happening this week :)! Everything has been about money: having it, needing it, and the different demographics of communities that have more or need more.
Money, religion and politics: some of the toughest conversations to have from a non-defensive stance…and then you combine two (religion and money) and man does that bring up so much stuff.
People who have feeling guilt and then reflexive anger outward about that guilt, people who don’t have feeling reflexive envy and outward anger which asserts richeousness with an undercurrent of the envy…and then everywhere in between. And I say both of those clear polarizing huge sweeping overgeneralizations of have and have not not really as a statement about everyone just as a statement of seeing it so often in the therapy room (one of the safe spaces to discuss and illuminate that) and in my own self in different places of my lifetime. It’s just human. But to admit either end of that humanity is so vulnerable and to expose it intentionally so hard.
I think it is necessary. In this world today, in this imbalanced economic structure where places like church buildings become harder to justify and maintain at a level of status quo…what we think about money, our money, and church money has to be discussed amid this huge paradigm shifting place in history where, as I had in discussion with a congregational church pastor this week what your book says Sarah becomes more important …that “portable faith” because stationary church may be something shifting and non-bi-vocational clergyhood (maybe) with it.
Just my thoughts as this idea of money and the shape of church has been at the forefront of my mind this week :).
Thanks again for great reflection points! I actually mentioned “Portable Faith” this past Wednesday at our Deanery Convocation and the essential tools within for the future of church–I saw a few people furiously scribbling your name and the title so hopefully there will be motivated conversations and a few book sales around that :)!
Teresa B Pasquale May 6, 2013 (10:32 am)
Oh and I also mentioned it and put it on a must-read list when I spoke at a conference for struggling churches in the whole diocese two weeks ago…so hopefully some more interest there as well :).
I am really hoping to build a conference of young adult and emerging ministry and church-hood around many of these premises and would love to have your presence there if it’s in your schedule to do so :)….thinking february :).
Sarah May 7, 2013 (9:36 am)
@Teresa, you couldn’t be more right when you mentioned the challenge of talking about money and religion in the same breath. Enemies will be made. =)
Thanks for sharing the book. I hope it leads to new or stronger ties to communities for some churches.
Todd May 6, 2013 (10:34 am)
Ray makes some good points about the use of these questions in a “stealth situation”. In some of my work in experiential education, I have found that deep questions like this must be back-loaded into a day/program, so as to build cohesion, trust, etc. before people are truly willing to engage these ideas.
While I think you could flash these on a screen and ask people to internally respond, I think the best environment for real, deep discussion is within a group where people know and trust each other. This allows for more open and directed discussion.
Sarah May 7, 2013 (9:37 am)
@Todd, I agree. When I first started using these exercises, it was often in a weekend retreat context where there was a lot of time to build and process without just dropping a bomb and walking away.
Eric Haynes May 7, 2013 (6:32 pm)
One of the things we’ve discovered, as a church that attracts a lot of people who are unaccustomed to going to church, is that they don’t even know to give. We don’t pass the plate, for example. A lot of people have a mistrust of “the church.” But we do offer finance classes, and within those classes we talk about the power of giving, and generosity. I think people want to make an impact in their world…we have to show them how.
And as we’ve always been fond of saying around here, “if we can grab their heart, their wallet will soon follow.”
Benji May 8, 2013 (8:25 pm)
I love what you are trying to accomplish with this excercise however I wonder what this looks like in a church that has majority middle class vs a church that has a low economic status? My hunch is that it would be harder to engage the middle class. . . but I also agree with most of the comments that this would not work well in a weekend setting during service and must be done in a retreat/small group context.
Doug Bradshaw May 9, 2013 (9:46 am)
I want to take a little bit of a different angle at this and say that today we are a part of a group of “God-followers” that struggles to ask hard questions of themselves. Whether it is the size of the house they live in, the person they want to marry, or how they treat those on who vote differently, “God-followers” do and say a lot of things today without asking themselves if God would approve. I do not say this as criticism as much as we just don’t seem to value as much as we should the hard question.
This exercise for me would be so good, not to answer the question, but to make people see that there is more grey than we like to think. I have always felt that a good challenge to my faith is the best thing that could happen and many times that comes when I embrace that someone else believes different that I do.
Good stuff again!!
Rick Nier May 9, 2013 (10:26 am)
Sarah,
I think all the questions could be answered with a simple yes. Yes, it would be beneficial. Yes, it would be a sensitive topic. No doubt there would be disagreements.
But I also think these are the types of conversations the Church should be having. Done in love, this is the kind of stuff that changes perspectives and that can be a great thing. It is through the sharing of ideas that people begin to grow.
I do think that the smaller the group, perhaps the better. People tend to be more sensitive when they are looking one another in the eyes, rather than calling out answers in a larger group.
In my youth ministry setting, I am less afraid to make the audience squirm, so maybe I’m just brazen enough to think this should be done in the larger adult settings as well.
Wes May 9, 2013 (6:10 pm)
Here at the military chapel, the Chaplain is good about calling people forward and putting them on the spot–for their growth. He once extorted a young man to not be wishy-washy with his word, if he believed his word for the congregation was from God. Then, in correcting this young man, the chaplain corrected all of us vicariously.
I hear the point about newcomers having anonymity and about not making people uncomfortable. However, one thing that I think works to the advantage of all in this military school chapel is that the chaplain has established the precedent of making people publicly uncomfortable, AND, now that everyone knows this, it actually reduces EVERYONE’S discomfort, because we know what to expect if he ever calls us to the front.
That being said, he’s much older, and the cadets are much younger, but, as I envision dealing with money for this specific fellowship, yanking people out of the crowd–in love–is a way of drawing out the differing answers and perspectives to the hard questions.
I mean, at this point, the chaplain here–through times outside of church service–has so demonstrated his heart for the cadets, that he could ask one of them to explain why they moved further left or right on the money spectrum, and it also could be done in broad daylight, in the middle of church service. That trust, though, which others above mention is more often found in small groups, has already been established within this larger group.
Or–even if it hasn’t–he’s the chaplain, and so he outranks them. :) I am by now means a professional, but, more and more, it strikes me that following the Spirit is so tailor-specific to each location and group of people. The leaders REALLY need to be listening.
Hilary May 9, 2013 (6:59 pm)
I’m a little stuck on the idea behind the group dynamic. Is this what works in some situations? To stand on an imaginary line and declare themselves? (“I am 100% ambivalent on this issue!” :-))
Talking about money is really really hard – I agree with the others who have written this. I just have to wonder what calling people out on the subject might accomplish? I guess to me it seems like the potential for unnecessary embarrassment is there.
For me, I would feel more comfortable having a group discussion about the subject of money, letting people speak if they feel so inclined. It’s fine to even ask for how people have dealt with these issues in their own lives and finances. Then perhaps end by asking them to think about what scripture tells us about money as they go through the week. I think some of the other commenters have pointed out something similar.
Melinda May 12, 2013 (8:25 pm)
The topic of money in general seems to be a sensitive topic with people. I don’t think I like the idea of people lining up. Maybe put the questions on paper & give a scale so people can individually evaluate themselves. I don’t think you want to create a peer pressure type of situation. To do this in a line up would have to be a small group that is very closely connected in my opinion.
I don’t see any issues preaching about this or bringing up money, tithes or any of these questions. I think our church would react much better to this by self evaluation over an actual line up. That type of thing, even though I would say I am out going, is very much internally uncomfortable for me. I think this is an important subject, but don’t want to embarrass people or make them feel as if they are being judged in this topic.
I hope this helps!
danielle Williams May 13, 2013 (5:49 am)
I also agree talking about money can ve hard. So many people have been taken advantage of by people. When it comes to giving people have to be shown how to give. Also, we have to allow God to touch their hearts to do so.
No one including myself likes to be forced or beat down by someone when it comes to giving. I think about families that are just making it week to week. Would it be in gods plan to put another weight on them. You never want someone to feel shamed because they don’t have fo give.
I believe if you allow people to give what they feel it creates an free atmosphere where there is no pressure or shame.
Becky May 20, 2013 (4:05 pm)
My initial reaction was very similar to Ray’s reaction. It felt very political to me and as I read the statements, they continued to feel political to me with the exception of the last statement, which is simply a parable rephrased. I probably feel this way because money and politics are often talked about at the same time in today’s society. I don’t think this type of exercise would work in a regular Sunday morning Service, but would in our evening service or in a small group setting. Sometimes it’s hard for unchurched people to hear about money at church because it appears that we as a church are always asking for money and not always forthright about where that money is going.
Amy Jones May 26, 2013 (10:30 pm)
I think this would be a rewarding exercise to do but definitely a more challenging and difficult one. I am not sure what the appropriate setting would be or how it would go over in a multi-economic church. Our church regularly uses the Dave Ramsey Financial Peace University series. I wonder if these might be some activities to be used with this group.